the republican establishment, joe, hallelujah, hallelujah. >> pat buchanan's been waiting for that since '92. what about you, willie? >> i learned that we've got to get out of here and do some velour track suit shopping. >> mark? >> curt loader lives? >> what about you? >> family is important. >> if it's way too early, what time is it? >> it's "morning joe." but right now stay tuned for "the daily rundown." the delaware stunner. did republican hopes of a senate takeover just vanish? and what's the impact of this conservative insurrection inside the gop for 2010 and 2012? two years to the date after the collapse of lehman brothers, our exclusive interview with treasury secretary, timothy geithner. could the economic turmoil have been avoided? and can a hollywood movie really move washington? the makers of "an inconvenient truth" are live with us. the new mission this time, dealing with the failing american education system.

it's wednesday, september 15th, 2010. 48 days to the midterm elections and, whoo, what a day 49 it was yesterday. >> indeed. >> i'm chuck todd. >> it's going to go down in history. i'm savannah guthrie. let's get right to the rundown. a political earthquake in delaware. the candidate out of nowhere, christine o'donnell, knocks off the longtime republican politician everyone thought would win the nomination and the seat. did republicans just kiss their chances of a senate takeover good-bye? nbc's capitol hill correspondent, kelly o'donnell, is live in wilmington, where the story is today. kelly, i don't even know what to say. it sounds like this was a race that republicans were counting on, thinking this seat was locked, and now everything's changed. >> reporter: well, as we've met before on mornings after a big tea party upset, i am seeing personally a pattern. when we're on the ground, talking to candidates, mike castle and his supporters, christine o'donnell, her family,

her volunteer and supporters, we've spent time with both. and you could see a difference. castle's people had respect and appreciation for his long service here, but around o'donnell, there was a fiery level of attention and enthusiasm. not just about her, but about a chance to send a message to washington. a chance to say, we don't want things as they were. we've seen that in other places. that's what has played out here. and what is also different is that mike castle has been someone who's been so successful, because he's a moderate. and he's won more elections here than any republican. he was the governor, as you recall, and has been popular. he did not congratulate o'donnell. he's clearly disappointed. when i spoke to him, he said that he had not engaged with her or taken her on during most of the campaign because he didn't believe that she was qualified, thought she had a lot of deficiencies. lisa murkowski told him, you better pay attention, after her defeat, and he did get

aggressive. now, o'donnell, who has had a lot of attention, who is not tested, who has never held public office, but who has been a voice of conservative issues and she's worked for nonprofit groups, she appeared on the "today" show this morning and this is how she reacted to the assumptions, the conventional wisdom that she cannot win in november. >> it's a shame. i think a few people got their pride bruised last night. a few of the so-called experts proved that once again they were wrong. this is a very unpredictable political season, where anything goes. >> reporter: and so what o'donnell is now saying is if she doesn't have the republican establishment, she would certainly like their help, she called for republican unity. not sure she'll get it. but believes that tea partyers here and around the country will come through with enthusiasm and cash. she doesn't have much in her campaign bank, and she's going to need that to try to compete.

chris coombs is the democrat that democrats are now very excited about. >> kelly o'donnell in wilmington, delaware, this statistic might matter on election night. 1,500 votes, if they changed hands in this primary last night, republicans might be that much closer to ten senate seats. anyway, thanks very much. well, this conservative versus gop establishment story line playing out in new hampshire now. that race is too close to call. the latest memories show former attorney general, kelly iyat, is ahead, but by just under 1,000 votes. monotane is the one drawing conservative, tea party support. we shall see. we have about 85% reporting. still going to take a long time to get the final votes in, ayotte looks like she's going to continue to open up a lead. she's been opening up a lead over the last few hours. in new york, congressman charlie rangel, he shook off those ethics charges and rolled to a surprisingly strong primary victory last night, as he's on

his way to his 21st term. more than 50% of the vote, more than double his closest competitor, in this case, adam clayton powell iv. and right here in our own backyard, change is coming to washington, literally. voters rejected mayor adrian fenty's bid for re-election, giving council chairman vincente gray a decisive victory, 53% to 46%. fenty couldn't even beat gray in his own precinct. vincent gray could be unopposed in november. >> joining us now for a look at some of these key race last night, mark murray. and mark, a lot of peoples obviously talking about delaware, but also new hampshire's race, too close to call, as chuck just mentioned. i had a white house official argue to me today, don't just say this is anti-incumbent that's going on across the board, it's really

anti-incumbent sentiment going on within the republican primaries. >> i think that there is some truth to that, savannah. you look, there really does seem to be a purge that's being conducted within the republican party. it's actually something that dates back to last year. remember when arlen specter defected to the democratic party, and in the spring, charlie crist had to quit the florida senate republican primary. we saw bob bennett lose in utah. a lot of this is occurring on the republican side. now, there have been some democratic incumbents who have lost their primaries for re-election. we saw alan mull hahn in west virginia, carolyn kilpatrick lose. but those had to do more with ethical issues than ideological issues, but what really playing out on the republican side is almost a purge where ideological purity is more important, necessarily, than maybe winning. we'll see if that plays out in november. >> mark, very quickly, there were some other nominations set. big governors' races, wisconsin,

rhode island, massachusetts, even new york, although that's not going to be a pretty close contest. quickly, walk us through those general election matchups. >> right, chuck. in new york, carl palladino ended up upsets rick lazio and he will face andrew cuomo in the fall. in wisconsin, it's going to be democrat tom barrett versus republican scott walker. in rhode island, it's going to be a three-way race that will be including lincoln chafee, a one-time senator from that state. and also, there's going to be a three-way race in massachusetts. incumbent governor deval patrick, republican charles baker, and independent tim cahill. another interesting night and the primary season is finally coming to a close. >> all right, mark murray, nbc's deputy political director, thanks for that. savannah, up and down the ballot, richard nixon's grandson finished third in his primary. you had former members of congress lose primaries for governor in both wisconsin and new york. joe malone, who used to be the

massachusetts republican party, he got spanked in a primary. if you were connected to the establishment inside the republican party, you lost last night, and you lost in some cases by big, big numbers. let's move on. on capitol hill, a big breakthrough, the small business bill the president has been holding up is a symbol of republican obstruction finally got passed that senate deadlock. aides say could be on the president's desk by next week. john harwood is cnbc's chief washington correspondent. so, john, you know, we hear these things. it's a small business bill. what is it practically going to do that the average consumer and the average american is going to understand? >> well, the most important thing in the bill is a $30 billion lending fund that community banks are going to be able to tap to lend money to small businesses. now, the challenge is whether or not those -- there is demand for loans with small businesses. you know, ultimately, in this economy, the problem is consumers don't want to spend money. so are you really putting your lead on the target, if you will,

of the economic problem. and some people have warned that banks may consider this -- elizabeth warren has actually warned about this. that some community banks may view this as t.a.r.p. money and not -- because it is being diverted from the t.a.r.p. program, and don't want to be associated with it. nevertheless, it is a step when one of the economic problems we face is the lack of credit for small businesses, it's one step in that direction. and interestingly, on the election point you were just discussing with mark murray, the only two republicans who broke that filibuster are guys who are not on the ballot this year and don't have to worry about reaction -- >> and those two republicans were george voinovich of ohio and george lemieux of florida, who is not running for re-election. >> real quickly on elizabeth warren, you mentioned, this is the person that a lot of progressives twoont see heading that new consumer bureau. there's so the word she could be announced to that post this week in some way, shape, or form. what are you hearing? >> i think the white house is going to put her in that post, at least temporarily. i think at this point, when everyone's trying to rile up

their base, they can't afford to zpa disappoint their base on that one. >> john harwood, thanks so much. two years to the day today after the biggest bankruptcy in u.s. history, the debate is still raging. should lehman brothers have been saved? would that have maybe staved off the larger financial crisis? >> coming up next, a daily rundown exclusive, tim geithner, he was at the center the storm then in a different position. what did we learn from the lehman collapse and what's being done to restore confidence back to both wall street and main street. but first, a look ahead at f the president's schedule today. you're watching "the daily rundown" on msnbc. my name is vonetta, and i suffer from allergies. [ male announcer ] we asked zyrtec® users what they love about their allergy relief, and what it lets them do. the thing i love most about zyrtec® is that it allows me to be outside. [ male announcer ] we bet you'll love zyrtec®, too -- or it's free. [ vonetta ] it is countdown to marshmallow time. [ woman laughs ] [ female announcer ] start your morning... hey. what are you doing up? i thought i'd take a drive before work. want to come? [ female announcer ] or make his day. yeah.

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we begin our coverage tonight of what's been called the worst financial crisis in

modern times. certainly, the largest financial disaster in decades in this country. and perhaps the end of an era in american business. >> what a moment. that was two years ago today, lehman brothers goes bankrupt. the government does not save it, some say turning an economic downturn into a full-blown crisis that the country has yet to fully recover from. >> joining us now, treasury secretary tim geithner. he's on the white house north lawn. we apologize in advance, but we feel your pain, mr. secretary, because we deal with that noise every day with that construction behind you. mr. secretary, you were at the center of this storm when you were at the new york fed. do you have any regrets today that between you, fed chair bernanke, and then treasury secretary hank paulson that the three of you didn't figure out a way for the government to save lehman brothers? >> we would have done it if we had any capacity to do that, absolutely. that would have been the right thing to do. but the tragic failure of this

crisis was that we did not have the tools to limit leverage, limit risk taking in some of the largest financial institutions in the country. and when they made a bunch of tragic mistakes, we didn't have the capacity to wind them down, break them up without huge damage to the rest of the american economy. those were the basic failures of policy that helped lead to the crisis, and that's what the bill corrects. >> well, i want to move on to an issue that's current today, and that is, of course, the tax cuts, and whether to let the tax cuts expire for the wealthiest of americans. my question to you is, we all know the president's position, your position that the bush tax cuts for the wealthiest should be allowed to expire. there are a lot of people who say, look, this imperils the economic recovery, and frankly, some democrat who is say, why don't we just do a compromise here and freeze them for two yea years. i mean, is there not room to compromise on this? are you open to a compromise like that? >> savannah, if you put the

politics aside for a moment, i know we're in a political moment, but if you put those politics aside, what we're having is a debate about what is the right policy for the country now. and the three key tests of policy now should be the following -- what's going to be the best for middle class americans, what's going to be the best for sparking business investments so we get job creation stronger and more quickly, and how to do those things in a way that's going to be fiscally responsible. and what's the president's proposed is absolutely the most responsible path for the country, which is to extend the middle class tax cuts right now. remember, those go to not just 98% of americans, but about 98% of small businesses across the country. make sure we're not going to let dividends, capital gains rate rise, so we keep taxes on capital investment low. that's very good for confidence. there's no reason to delay that. but what we also want to do is provide new incentives for businesses to invest, get people back to work more quickly. what separates us is there are some people in congress who want to permanently extend the tax cuts at the high end, the

richest 2% of americans, and that costs $700 billion. we think that would be irresponsible. and the people who want to do it temporarily, really want to do it so they can maximize the chance we do it permanently. that's why we're having this debate. we don't think that would be responsible. >> all right. well, mr. secretary, then, how about another part of this compromise. why not find a way to make sure those 2% of small businesses that would be affected by a tax increase are somehow exempted, number one. and number two, if this is about millionaires and billionaires, then draw the line at $1 million. why, you know, why -- what's the magic about $250,000 and not $1 million, and then, frankly, the political rhetoric matches the facts? >> those lines were drawn by president bush and then the tax cuts that president bush asked congress to pass and congress passed gave -- drew that line there. now, again, that's just the most fortunate, the highest earning 2% of americans and 2% of small business. and what a lot of people are calling small businesses are

really partners in law firms and a huge share of that income goes to businesses, parents and hedge funds, partnerships, partners in law firms that make a very substantial amount of money. again, we have to make choices. we don't have unlimited resources. we want to find a mix of packages that is fiscally responsible, is good for the middle class, and provides the best bang for the buck in sparking business investment. and the president's proposals do a better job of doing that. >> you know, you mentioned that just as recently as this week that these large tax cuts for the wealthiest americans were passed without any way to pay for them. and that's true. however, the same could be said of the middle class tax cuts your administration is now advocating. >> no, that's not true. that's not true, savannah. >> republicans aren't suggesting a way to -- okay. how are the maiddle class tax cuts being paid for in the budget? >> the pay-go rules, these are the basic budget disciplines that were put in place in the

'90s and abandoned in the last decade, they pay to extend those middle class tax cuts. what is not responsible is to go out and ask the american people to ask me to go out and borrow another $700 billion over ten years from investors around the world, ultimately our children will pay that cost, and add that to our future deficits. that is not good stimulus, not good support for the economy. much better to provide targeted support for business investment today. >> so to be clear, you don't have to borrow to do the middle class tax cuts. that's not deficit spending? >> we believe and we laid out a path to do this, that extends those tax cuts in a way that is fiscally responsible, helps bring down our long-term deficits in a way that gets us much closer to sustainability. what some in congress are proposing are, we think is, i believe is just irresponsible, again, it's asking us to go add another $700 billion to our nation's debt over the next ten years to extend tax cuts which

have a terrible record in helping economic growth and helping spark business investment. it's just not a good use of limited resources. >> mr. secretary, why do we think that -- look, there seems to be -- the fact is, the american consumer is not responding the way all of you assumed the american consumer would. you put something like $300 billion of the stimulus into the pockets of the middle class, because you thought it was going to spur consumer spending. it did not. was that a wasted tax cut, because that money was used to pay down debt? it did not spur the consumer spending? >> no, actually, that's not a good reading of the data. let me describe it this way. when you're coming out of a financial crisis that was produced in part because people were living beyond their means, those recoveries are harder, they're slower, they take more time. they're more choppy, they're more uneven because people have to go back to living within their means. that is necessary, inevitable. but because of the tax cuts in the recovery act, because of the

support the government provided, the incomes americans had were much larger than they otherwise would be. and in fact, spending by americans has actually been reasonably healthy in the early stages of this recovery. now, we're not growing fast enough to put people back to work as quickly as we would like. it's worth noting, you know, that private sector job growth came quicker in this recovery than it did in the last recovery. we've had almost 750,000 jobs come back already. that's not good enough, though. and our job is to make sure we're getting more people back to work more quickly. the best way to do that is give middle class americans certainty that their tax treatment is going to be extended. and to give businesses targeted investments to encourage investment in this country. >> and before we let you go, sir, we have to ask you, will elizabeth warren be announced this week as the head of the new consumer bureau? >> the president's going to speak to that soon, but what we're focused on is making sure that these financial reform laws deliver the stronger protections americans deserve in how they use financial products more

responsibly. that's what this bill does, and we want to make sure we have the strongest possible leadership to get off a strong start in providing better protections. that's what we're focused on. >> mr. secretary, before we let you go, can you guarantee by the end of 2011 we will have a month where there is more than 300,000 private sector jobs created? >> what i can tell you is that our responsibility here in washington, as we try to heal the scars of this crisis, is to do everything we can to make sure the government is helping that process, not hurting. helping people get back to work more quickly. >> so no guarantee? no guarantee, though, by the end of next year? >> if washington does sensible things, we will have job growth stronger, more quickly. >> all right. treasury secretary tim geithner, thank you for joining us. a very noisy white house north lawn. i wonder if that's a recovery act project, sir, behind you. i don't know if you know. >> nice to talk to you guys.

>> okay, take care. up next in today's decision 2010, that race is still too close to call in new hampshire. we're going to check in former new hampshire senator, john sununu about why republican voters are shifting away from the establishment. he's probably glad he's not on the ballot this year. but first, our washington speak today is purely hypothetical. >> i'm not going to answer all these hypotheticals. >> i wouldn't get into the hypothetical like that. >> i mean, you're wandering into hypothetical territory. >> oh, that's the classic washington dodge. a way to wiggle out of an answer. but dissing a question because it's hypothetical is actually quite telling, when they don't shoot down the premise of the question, sometimes, chuck, we think that sends a clear signal that says, we're open to negotiate. >> we're just not going to do it with you as the moderator, to our chagrin. anyway, if you have some washington speak you'd like us to clarify, send us an e-mail, daily rundown@msnbc.com. we'll be right back. well, we g♪ ♪ yeah, we really do

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well, delaware has a story we've been seeing before in this primary season. a candidate with tea party support coming from seemingly out of nowhere and getting a surprising victory, an upset. >> we're still waiting for the final results in new hampshire, but both races are the latest signs of this ideological purge or conservative insurrection within the gop. john sununu is a former senator and congressman from the granite state. and frankly, new hampshire's been having these ideological fights for years. it's not new inside the new hampshire republican party, and that's why senator, you may be able to speak to it best. first of all, give us the latest. how many votes are out in this senate primary between ayotte and lamontagne? >> i think about 85, 88% of the vote has been counted. probably somewhere between 750 and 1,000 votes separating the two. but the fact is, you have to go town by town. and i think over the course of the day, the secretary of state will tabulate all the votes, certify the votes and we'll have

a clear picture of whether or not it's going to be close enough for a recount or whether or not there'll be enough daylight between the two candidates that it can be called today. >> what do you make of the results, not only what's happening in new hampshire, but certainly you're aware of what's happening in delaware, and across the republican party. are you concerned that it's essentially moderates no longer able to win elections, win republican primaries, and what that might mean for the party's long-term prospects. >> well, look, there's definitely an ideological undercurrent across the whole country. people looking for fiscally responsible candidates, conservative candidates. people are going to stand up and do something about the deficit, control and curtail the size of government. but, really, in new hampshire, that's not quite the case. so we had a more moderate former member of congress, charlie bass, who won his primary -- >> by fingernails. by fingernails. and it was -- >> to be sure, but, look, you've got to look at the results and be honest about them. so charlie was successful.

he won by, i think, 5%, 7% in his primary. and in the senate race, both of the candidates are certainly conservative candidates. they have very similar positions on the issues. here, you've talked about it before, though, it was more of an issue of kelly ayotte being perceived as being supported by the washington establishment. and i do think that that hurt her. but the undercurrent of ideology between the two wasn't nearly as strong as we've seen, say, in delaware, and in some of the other national races. >> i understand that, but ayotte was -- one of the ways that lamontagne and some others who weren't supportive of ayotte tried to make the point that she wasn't "one of us," right, one of the conservatives here, was that she was -- would have confirmed justice sotomayor. so i asked you this. as a former u.s. senator, somebody that was comfortable working across party lines and saying you are a conservative and voting like a conservative, if you can't even support a supreme court justice of the other president's party at a

time when, you know, it's their job to do appointments and you get punished for that in a republican primary, what does that mean for the u.s. senate? is this going to be a working legislative body, or is this going to be gridlock like we've never seen before? >> well, the saying is, with 51 votes in the u.s. senate, you can't do anything, and with 49 votes, you run the place. it is a place where you've got to drive consensus if you're going to be successful. and if you walk away from consensus building, you may get things done, but it's going to have a very polarizing result. and look at, say, the health care legislation. sure, that was passed and signed into law, but a highly polarizing piece of legislation that is hurting democrats across the country, because it's not supported broadly across america. it's not just about republicans not supporting that health care legislation, it's about independents and even some democrats having real discomfort about it. so you're right, hey, building consensus is important, but you

don't necessarily have to be an independent or a moderate republican or a conservative democrat to build consensus. you know, there's a history of lawmakers, some on the left, some on the right, that were able to reach across party lines. john mccain, a conservative on the right, an example of that. former senator ted kennedy, on the left, an example of that. when push came to shove, they knew how to work through a compromise in order to build consensus and have a piece of legislation that didn't just pass, but could sustain support in the long run. >> all right. form senator john sununu, these are interesting times in new hampshire and the republican party. it's great to have your perspective. thank you. >> great being with you. all right. coming up, how that american hiker just released from iran is spending her first full day of freedom. plus, drunk in the cockpit? we're going to tell you about the latest pilot to have a few before getting behind the controls. >> oh, my god. and the inconvenient truth about education in america. the filmmakers behind that

climate change documentary have now turned their sights to america's schoolchildren and they will be here live next. but first, today's trivia question from "the almanac of american politics." this is a good one. in which state does the governor have the power of the so-called frankenstein veto? who doesn't want that? the answer and more, coming up. [ female announcer ] stay once...

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jerusalem. in less than an hour, outgoing bp ceo tony hayward will testify before british lawmakers, looking into this summer's massive oil spill in the gulf of mexico. other stories making headlines on a wednesday, american hiker sarah shourd is spending her first full day of freedom resting in oman, the nation that negotiated her release from iran. shourd says she will now work to win the release of her two companions, shane bauer and josh fattal. a delta airlines pilot is on suspension today as the company investigates whether he was too drunk to fly. the pilot was pulled out of the cockpit just before a flight from the netherlands to the u.s. he was found, according to investigators, to have a blood alcohol level of 0.023. that is above the maximum allowed by dutch law, but below the faa standard. well, more politics now. after last night, the senate's republican campaign committee has now had eight, possibly nine of its picks rejected by voters.

>> to help us understand what this purging of party moderates means for the republican prospects in the senate this year and maybe the longer term consequences for the republican party, we're joined by two experts here. stu rothenberg, editor and publisher of the rothenberg political reporter, and don balz, national political reporter, and grand puma of "the washington post" political team over there. stu, let me start with you. you put it out first immediately. you moved virginia from lean democrat to lean republican. prospects for them to take over the senate today? >> significantlily worse today than yesterday. this delaware seat was part of the mathematical calculation, the republicans netting ten seats, withdraw one. it's still a long shot. it was always tougher, but this is much tougher now. >> what is this now? what are the last three or four seats now that suddenly have to get more tension from national republican ifs they truly want to continue to make the claim? >> it's certainly still the big three of washington, california,

and wisconsin. they may try to make the connecticut argument. we'll see that more and more, if the polling turns better, in fact there. but they'll have to run all these -- >> west virginia? >> we're watching west virginia. we done have it as a safe democratic seat. so i think when conservatives are angry and you see the kinds of turnout you're getting among conservatives, i think it's in play. but again, it's harder. >> dan, i have to ask you, the conventional wisdom now, today, that delaware is much more likely to be won by the democrats. of course, the conventional wisdom a few months ago is that mike castle had this in the bag. is this not an indictment, not only of establishment picks on both parties, but, prafrankly, political media that continues to get it wrong. >> i think that's absolutely right. stu is correct. i think that all the handicapping this morning would move that race toward the democrats. but this is a year in which conventional wisdom has been entirely wrong, most of the time. and i think that there is such a

powerful anti-washington fervor out and around the country that we can't tell at this point how these races are going to shape up. i mean, i think one of the things that people who follow politics closely, try to evaluate, is quality of candidates. and in delaware, i think there was a clear mismatch. that by all normal standards, mike castle was the higher quality candidate. but i think that what's driving things this year is purity of the message, not necessarily always quality of the candidate. and that played out yesterday. it's played out in a number of other primaries. and it could well play out in november, but this time, taking down democrats who think they may be still in pretty safe seats or less competitive because they don't think they've drawn the strongest possible challenger. >> by the way, message trumps money, stu. messages trump money in a lot of these places, alaska too. democrats brag about their money advantage. >> first of all, i think dan is right. we were wrong. and i think many of us, myself

included, probably underestimated the energy on the right and the tea party movement. you look at gallup's numbers in terms of which americans are most energized and -- conservatives, way off the chart. the difference here, of course, is that this is a republican primary, so this is a narrow slice of the small party and a diminishing party in a state that has been increasingly democratic. so the problem is, to extrapolate and to say, well, the general electorate in delaware is going to be as conservative, angry, and mobilized as the republican primary voters. and i think that's a stretch. >> do you think, dan, that republicans have misread the electorate? basically, interpreting their anger as anti-obama, when, frankly, it's anti-washington. >> well, it is anti-washington, but i think stu is on to something very important. there is the question of, what is the breaking point within the republican party of this

insurrection or insurgency or civil war that's going on. and i think for some republicans, that happened last night in delaware. the e-mails i was getting overnight suggest that there is a part of the party that is very, very alarmed at what is now happening. and they recognize and have said and believe that the tea party on balance has been a net plus for the republican party, despite the turmoil that they've caused in a lot of the primaries. but now the question is, how far can that go? and what problems that's going to cause for the party, not just in november, but beyond. >> i was just going to say, the day after the november elections is the start of the republican presidential primary season. rich lowry and i were having a tweet back and forth conversation last night, and he said, what we saw last night is more evidence that the republican presidential primary took a step to the right and we're probably going to see more courting of jim demint, not just sarah palin, but jim deminute and the tea party express in a way that may be haley barbour and mitt romney thought they

could sort of stay above. >> absolutely. i think there's no question about it. i think you guys were right last night and you're right today. this shows that there's an energized core in the party. they'll be looking for a different kind of candidate, not somebody with washington credentials or insider experience, but somebody who can talk about overthrowing the whole political system. >> very quickly, dan balz, jim demint or mitch mcconnell, who's got more influence inside the senate republican caucus these days? >> well, i would say, at this moment, you would sort of try to bet on jim demint, but mitch mcconnell is a seclude insihrew player. but he's a more nervous person than he was a few weeks ago. >> stu rothenberg, thank you so much. dan balz, who chuck calls the grand puma, not a bad title to have. >> i aspire -- some day we all aspire to be grand puma, only if you get the water buffalo hat some day. dan will get one. >> thanks to you both. let's do our trivia. in which state does the governor

have the power -- who doesn't want this? the power of the so-called frankenstein veto? >> the answer is wisconsin, because the governor can stitch together major alterations in bills by striking particular words and phrases creating, as you might realize, frankenstein legislation. it is a monster! coming up, saving america's schools. can a hollywood movie spark change in washington? among 30 developed countries, we rank 25th in math and 21st in science. in almost every category, we've fallen behind, except one. kids from the usa rank number one in confidence. ♪ >> we'll take a look at the new documentary, "waiting for superman," coming up. but first, the white house soup of the day, potato and leek. >> a reporter's favorite soup.

we love leek soup. >> indeed, we do. you're watching "the daily rundown," only on msnbc. my nasal allergies are ruining our camping trip.

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you wake up every morning and you know that kids are getting a really californiay education right now. >> so you think that most of the kids are getting are crappy education right now? >> i don't think they are, i know they are. >> that was michelle rhee, she's an education reformer, chancellor of the washington, d.c., schools. we think, today, she's still chancellor. she could be out of a job after d.c. mayor adrian fenty's loss on last night's primary. rhee is featured in the new documenta documentary called "waiting for superman." the film officially opens next week. >> and there's a big premiere in washington tonight. "waiting for superman" comes from the same filmmakers behind "an inconvenient truth." welcome to you both. >> thank you. >> you obviously have some experience with issue films.

there was a phenomenal critical success of "inconvenient truth," and i guess the fundamental question is, now you're tackling public education. another very difficult social issue. can a movie really move washington, or change policy? >> right. well, when i started participant six years ago, the goal was to make a difference in big issues that affect us all. and one of our most prominent films to date was "an inconvenient truth." and when we did the film in 2006, opinion about climate change and the country was about 35% of americans felt that climate change was an important issue, but a year and a half later, when the film had run the course and had really gotten into the zeitgeist, about 85% of americans felt it was important. and the film itself was adopted as part of the curriculum in five countries around the world. and led to a number of bills and so on about climate change being passed. so we really think a film can make a difference. >> i want to drill down into the film and the whole issue of

education, jim. here's sort of my frustration when it comes to the issue of education. we all agree. everybody agrees. left, right, liberal, conservative, male, female, whatever, old, young, that the public school education system is broken, it needs fixing, and yet, nobody can agree on a solution, so talk -- walk us through some of the solutions that you thought, well, that's sort of where this is heading. >> well, what's interesting is about this whole issue of solutions is everybody at the beginning of the conversation really does care about children first. they do think that kids are the most important thing. they're looking at it, though, through their lens, as each of them are specialists. parents through their lens, teachers through their lens. but if you extend that school day, more teaching time in a classroom and you put the very best teachers in front of those students and you create a curriculum that's based on testing and standards that you can change student performance with the same amount of money as we're spending right now.

and that's what's exciting. is we've proven that we can make changes and it can work. we can really change the way we teach really change those scores, but we have to make these fundamental changes and it doesn't matter what type of school. it can happen in an urban public system like it's starting to happen in washington, d.c. it could happen with innovative schools, charters. not on the label on the school but putting those elements in place. >> you were a public schoolteacher in and i want to play a clip from the movie and the notion of this lottery for some kids getting in the right school truly boils down to luck. let's listen. >> a child that doesn't finish high school will earn less and be eight times more likely to go to prison. >> i want to go to school. >> reporter: for these kids, their only chance of getting into a great school depends on whether their number is picked in a lottery. >> jeff, i have to ask you, you said you started your company to

take on some of these thorny, social issue. on the other hand, you have to make a movie that people want to see. was that a difficult task in this case? >> a good story well told is the first goal for a film because you want people to see it. when we started this one, we approached the filmmaker davis googen him and davis said, well, this is tougher than climate change. so, he had to think about this before he got involved but when we got davis involved in the film, he managed to take this big quagmire, very complicated and turn it into a very approachable film. when people see it, they'll understand that the system is broken and then they'll see the human cost, these kids that we follow in the movie and it's very heart wrenching to see what these kids have to go through. >> let's identify where the system is broken. give me two or three places that it is broken and washington and state capitals need to deal with

this today. >> there are restrictions on innovative schools. so, the actual laws in place that actually prohibit innovation happening in schools. there is a structure within the way the relationship between teachers and the district is set up that prohibits the ability to award and encourage the best teachers to stay in their jobs and perform. and fundamentally, those two things are the biggest indicators of whether we're going to have success or not. >> interesting film and premieres in washington tonight and wider release later this month. great to have you here and jim, ceo, thanks, guys. >> thank you, both. join the networks of nbc universal. two-day summit shining a spotlight on education in america. education nation starts september 26th right here on msnbc and all the networks of msnbc universal. very quickly, time now for our tweet of the day. this comes from rita ag, is she attorney general?

>> i don't know. you look like brother and sister. lots of laughs. love their show. wait a minute -- >> you don't know what -- >> laughing out loud. >> i know you're not like a teenage girl, but you have to know what lol means? did we just violate our self-promote rule. let's promote some more, follow us any time on twitter and we will be right back. in times like these, you need an experienced partner to look out for you. heads up! and after 300 years we have gotten pretty good at that.

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and that's it for "the daily r runden." coming up next on msnbc, somebody who lols, chris jansing. then at 1:00 p.m., don't miss andrea mitchell reports and we will see you back here tomorrow. have a good day.

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